[Evening Reading ~ July 29, 2008]
“All that the Father giveth Me shall come to Me.”—John 6:37.
THIS declaration involves the doctrine of election: there are some whom the Father gave to Christ. It involves the doctrine of effectual calling: these who are given must and shall come; however stoutly they may set themselves against it, yet they shall be brought out of darkness into God’s marvellous light. It teaches us the indispensable necessity of faith; for even those who are given to Christ are not saved except they come to Jesus. Even they must come, for there is no other way to heaven but by the door, Christ Jesus. All that the Father gives to our Redeemer must come to Him, therefore none can come to heaven except they come to Christ.
Oh! the power and majesty which rest in the words “shall come.” He does not say they have power to come, nor they may come if they will, but they “shall come.” The Lord Jesus doth by His messengers, His word, and His Spirit, sweetly and graciously compel men to come in that they may eat of His marriage supper; and this He does, not by any violation of the free agency of man, but by the power of His grace. I may exercise power over another man’s will, and yet that other man’s will may be perfectly free, because the constraint is exercised in a manner accordant with the laws of the human mind. Jehovah Jesus knows how, by irresistible arguments addressed to the understanding, by mighty reasons appealing to the affections, and by the mysterious influence of His Holy Spirit operating upon all the powers and passions of the soul, so to subdue the whole man, that whereas he was once rebellious, he yields cheerfully to His government, subdued by sovereign love. But how shall those be known whom God hath chosen? By this result: that they do willingly and joyfully accept Christ, and come to Him with simple and unfeigned faith, resting upon Him as all their salvation and all their desire. Reader, have you thus come to Jesus?
August 2, 2008 at 12:25 am
Amen!
Brad
August 2, 2008 at 12:48 am
Thanks for the agreement! The Truth is the Truth . . . and an amen to that too!
August 4, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Although I was not raised in a Presbyterian church, thankfully I have been exposed to the 5 points (thanks to a special femaile), I have to say I agree with them all, and that they are not so called “Calvinistic” doctrines but BIBLICAL doctrine. Each one, including election (predestination of salvation), are all accounted for in the Bible.
I think the best example of election and predestination was an example of a job a man was offering. The job description promised only to be hard, would cause persecution and humiliation, and to dictate many fun activities you are no longer able to do. Now only this information was made public. Who would choose to do this? No one. Now the man selected a few people and told them that if they did complete this job, there would be great wealth beyond their imagination for their service. All that knew this extra information given to them would choose to take the job. The point is, everyone would choose not to take the job other than the ones with the extra revealed information, only obtained from an exterior source (the hiring man). So who is really in control? Yet we are still responsible for our choice (which we have no choince in the matter to make, hehe).
Now I make the question, what purpose is there really in the topic of election and how we are apply it to our life? Most people that I see who really push in election topics (definately not you Rev., I think you are great in you biblical discussion) and predestination are believers who seem to be the most complacent about their faith and negelect their public witness for Christlike lifestyles. Although I believe in it and understand it, I find it hard to find much use in it’s discussion, and usually see it damaging proper Christian habits because it’s not fully explained. The same is with many of the rest of the points of reformed theology. It seems many that believe in it have half knowledge of it, which holds them back. And many become very legalistic.
I am happy that you who are of the reformed theology background are here to teach well. Again, I really would love to visit your service!
Aside, there is a site: http://www.lovely-people.com
Brian Dean and JR McCravy made it. It is a forum for all of us to stay in contact (like Tim Keeler, Rabes, myself, etc.). All of us who are far away find it a neat place to stay connected. You should check it out!
August 6, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Well Mr. Thompson, the value of the doctrine of election is primarily, well, its biblical–Calvin did not come up with idea. It is nothing less than the authentic Gospel; a watered down version of “all ye all ye all ye in come free” that bypasses God’s holiness and invites sinners to come as they please. The doctrine of election is offensive to our view that we are all innocent until proven guilty–when the Bible says we are guilty and God does with this broken pottery what he pleases. The doctrine provides assurance that we really are saved; the converse says that there really are real enemies of the cross, sons of darkness that hate the cross and are under the sway of the serpent, all because Adam was given free will. God was fair you see, but Adam’s actions had consequences that affect all of us, like a moron that causes a wreck on the interstate.
Further, to diminish the emphasis (even if it makes people made or causes “division”) is not to present the authentic Gospel, but a false one. It is not sufficient to say Jesus loves you in evangelism. The New Testament makes it clear that the death of Jesus was to make sure that the elect were not punished and were really pardoned of their sins; Christ’s death is not a mere display of the love of God. That is why Puritan John Owen argued that if Jesus paid fo everyone’s sins, then all people are going to heaven. When we present the Gospel to people, we must present God’s Law and the fact that we have broken it–election says, that if anyone comes to Christ it is because God brought them to belief by giving them faith and since their salvation rests in God, then they have full assurance that they will go to heaven. This is why Peter tells us to make our calling and election sure by a lifestyle of repentence. I hope this helps.
August 6, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Well, like I said, I do believe election to be a biblical fact. It is indicated multiple times (especially in Romans). My question was to find it’s great relevance in discussion, not to argue against its truth. I think you misunderstood that.
I now see that it’s point in discussion is to combat the belief that we have something to do with our salvation. Also, its use in reference eternal security (eternally forward and backwards). Thanks for your response.
But I believe that God’s forgiveness that was given through the cross is efficient for all, but not in effect for all. I believe that is Biblically sound. And is one way to help a free-will extremist to understand what they “really” believe.
One more question: (sorry I dont mean to be argumentative, but im really looking at this with an open mind and appreciate your teaching)
What do you mean by a lifestyle of repentance? As far as I read, repentance in the Bible was always commanded to non-believers and for them to repent and come to the Lord. I know that God died “once” and “for all” sin in effect for the elect. I believe that after salvation, we are free from the bondage of sin, and that we are to live with the assurance and thankfulness of God’s grace. To live a lifestyle of repentance seems to still somewhat cling to the burden of sin. Could you clarify what this means? Perhaps I am overlooking something.
August 6, 2008 at 8:44 pm
*sufficient for all (not efficient) :L
August 6, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Thanks for the dialogue! I obviously was as clear as mud. The point about the value of the doctrine of election is that [1] it is the true Gospel on how a person is saved [2] teaching it provides assurance of our own salvation [3] using it in evangelism strikes at the heart of easy-believism; election robs the sinner of grounds of justifying himself and usually makes them mad; or the Holy SPirit uses it to make them repent. On that last note, a lifestyle of repentence– yes. Sure God has privided all that is necessary for both our justification and sanctification, but you and I free from the fetters of our sins, must decide everyday to take up our cross and follow Christ. When we disobey God–sin–it separates us from his fellowship (see Isaiah 1), not our position in Christ, but our temporal fellowship. Jesus warns in John 15 about being a fruitless branch and being cut off and thrown into the fire. Sanctification is real. There are a multitude of passages about God calling his people to repentence for various sins. In our worship at Rock, there is a time for public and private confession, acknowledging that we have sinned against God and the people here from me a proclamation of forgiveness, that Christ has conquered sin and we are a forgiven people. Equally, we are commanded to examine ourselves before we partake of the Lord’s Supper; the idea is self-judgement, inquiring into the condition of our hearts and repenting our sins. I hope I’m clearer than before
Check out our liturgy here.
August 7, 2008 at 3:07 am
Actually, that makes a lot of sense! I now understand what people mean by continual repentance. As it would seem, that would look as a neglect of God grace bestowed upon us. But the idea of self-judgement and inquiring into the condition of our hearts now makes me realize that it’s exactly what I believe. And thinking of the definition of repentance, it makes even more sense. It’s always the terminology makes me suspicious, because unexplained, it can really contort it’s true meaning. I like to test what is taught to me with the Word and with opinions of others I respect spiritually. Thanks Rev.!
But the fact remains that I still see so many people take the idea of continual repentance and neglect any notion of grace. “I am such a pathetic sinner. How dare I come in the presense of God” aspect. But I know that God is in me, continually refreshing my soul. And through Him, allows me to do His good work. He has covered my sins, and through Him, I can commune with an all-powerful, merciful God. That is what I dwell on. I know my sins are forgiven, and that is what drives me on in my faith and salvation. Not some aspect that I know my flesh will sin again and again. That is what Jesus died on the cross for. I agree in self examination, but from a rather different aspect than many. His grace is sufficient for me, not giving me a liscense to sin, but a liscense to come before Him unashamed and ever-thankful. And to persure what is Godly and pure as evidence of His sacrifice.